John Calvin (1509-1564) (71 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/21/2003 7:31 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 17)  
 
  723.1  
 
PROUD TO BE CALLED A CALVINIST? 

By Zygmund Dobbs 

John Calvin (1509-1564) was a French lawyer-politician. He was not a clergyman at first. It is true that he studied theological matters at the Sorbonne of the University of Paris, but this was primarily a training ground for political techniques used to control populations. 

What came to be known as Calvinism grew out of the policy and writings of John Calvin after he became the ruler and dictator of Geneva, Switzerland (1541-1564). Calvin originally had picked the losing aristocratic faction in a power struggle to control France. Since all these intrigues bore a religious complexion, the losers often were branded as heretics. Calvin was forced to flee his native France and eventually found refuge in Geneva. A man of tremendous political and organizational talents, he manipulated himself, and his fellow refugees, into absolute control over the city which gave them protection against the brutal Catholic Inquisition. Calvin had been condemned by the Inquisition, in absentia, to be burned at the stake. 

Within 48 months of his rule in Geneva, John Calvin caused 48 people to be executed. His victims ranged in age from 16 to 80. The most common capital offense was the opposition to infant baptism. Today, baptism only for accountable believers, is a Baptist distinctive. In Calvin's time it was punished either by drowning, a drawn out and slow burning at the stake, or beheading. All this was done in public, with city residents compelled to watch the butchery. The executions were spaced out so as to exert a continuing policy of fear and terror. Others were killed for advocating local church autonomy; opposing the tie-in of church and state; and preaching that Christ died for all sinners (unlimited atonement). 

In 1545, the bubonic plague swept through Geneva. Calvin and all his pastors had previously convinced their congregations that Geneva would be spared by God because they were the elect and that other cities in Europe, which had suffered, were reaping the harvest of sin reserved for the eternally damned. Calvin and his cohorts had to come up with a quick theological gimmick to explain away the plague in Geneva. 

Calvin caused a number of derelicts to be thrown into the dungeon and tortured on the rack. While the victims were having their arms and legs pulled out of their sockets, the torturers kept repeating names of those suspected of having Baptistic views. Under such incredible torture the victims responded to the promptings and confessed that the plague was spread by conspirators who caused it, "by smearing the door latches with an ointment prepared from devil's dung." The Calvinist slaughter was so great that the smell of burning human flesh permeated Geneva for days on end. 

On March 1545, Calvin wrote in a letter, "A conspiracy of men and women has lately been discovered, who for three years had spread the plague through the city. After fifteen women had been burned (by the state council), some men punished more severely, some suicides in prison, and twenty-five prisoners still held, the conspirators do not cease to smear the door-locks of houses with their poisons." 

In Geneva, a secret police was forged under the name of The Consistory. Every home was compulsorily examined and searched once a month. The City was divided into districts and committees of the Consistory were empowered to search and interrogate all residents without previous notice. 

How did Calvin manage to transform Geneva from a traditional democratic republic into a theocratic dictatorship? The answer lies in a skillful use of terror, both of the earthly variety of torment plus the threat of eternal damnation by invoking God's vengeance. This Gallic lawyer, was a genius in fashioning a political psychology of terror. At the top was a Congregation of the Clergy. Calvin carefully filtered out all pastors and teachers who did not submit to his personal domination. Those who opposed him were dealt with a ferocity that even shocked the leaders of the Catholic Inquisition. In fact, when Calvin tipped off the inquisitors in France with information calculated to lead protestants who disagreed with him to be burned at the stake by Catholics, the leaders of the Inquisition sometimes mercifully allowed the victims to escape. 

All printing presses in Geneva and other Swiss cities were firmly controlled by Calvin's oligarchy. Only approved books were allowed in Geneva. All letters leaving and entering the city were read by The Consistory. A body of Professional evesdroppers was employed not only in Geneva but was lodged as far away as Paris and Lyons, where Genevan merchants might be spied upon and their attitude towards Calvin reported. 

Any serious criticism of the Calvinist dictatorship was punished by the fiery stake or beheading. In all cases Calvin managed to skillfully embellish his moves with scriptural quotations. 

He had difficulty in reconciling his ideas of election and predestination with the books of James, Jude and II Peter. So, privately, he told his pastors that he doubted the authenticity of those books of the Bible. Even the Word of God had to be twisted to fit the tyranny of Calvin. 

Baptists, who came into existence upon the principle of soul liberty, should be on guard against a system that caused the slaughter of more humans than were killed during the bloody terror of the French Revolution of 1789. It is a matter of history that left-wing socialists have been extremely interested in the techniques employed by Calvin in controlling an entire society. There is an extensive literature dealing with the lessons of calvinistic operations for socialism. 

In 1903 and 1908 a lawyer named Nicolai Lenin, the future Dictator of Bolshevik Russia, spent hundreds of hours in the libraries of Geneva studying these terror techniques for his own application. This alone should give all Christian believers a good reason to pause and examine the nature of Calvinism. 

 

(The above is a fragment of a fully documented manuscript being prepared for a book on the history of Calvin and Calvinism). Printed and distributed by Providence Bible Church, RD 2, Box 583 E. Everett, Pa 15537, Written by Zygmund Dobbs 




David A. Brown
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  From:  Corgwyn2    10/29/2003 9:35 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 17)  
 
  723.2 in reply to 723.1  
 
Well here I am to say something in defense of this great theologian. I hope this article will refute your posting in the minds of some people.

Incidentally the  "Thumper" principle is a really good way to live...remember? "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

What Beza, his biographer, wrote is nearer truth: "Having been an observer of Calvin's life for sixteen years, I may with perfect right testify that we have in this man a most beautiful example of a truly Christian life and death, which it is easy to calumniate, but difficult to imitate." Ernest Renan finds the key to his influence in the fact that he was "the most Christian man of his generation" (Studies of Religious History and Criticism, New York, 1864 pp. 286 sqq.). 






Finally brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - think about such things. ~Philippians 4:8~

Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened. ~Anatole France~

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/29/2003 10:13 am  
To:  Corgwyn2    (3 of 17)  
 
  723.3 in reply to 723.2  
 
Hi Carol,

 

Thank you very much for your informative posting.

 

I mainly posted it in light of the new movie Luther about the life of Theologian Martin Luther and that the movie has given a glossy view of his life completely leaving out his anti-Jewish behavior.

 

I think the message of the Bible is that God uses imperfect humans. All of the prophets and all of the disciples each had their own shortcomings it is God that has made the good difference in each life.

 

As the Church we are setting our Theologians up on a pedestal that they do not belong on. They are humans just like each of us and just like them we too as ordinary common citizens of the kingdom of Heaven can do wonderful things.

 

I think the Worst thing the Modern Church has done is to cling to the shirts of long gone Church leaders and therefore we are neglecting our own leadership in the current times and therefore we are in a sense out of sink with what God is doing right here and right now.

 

Look back yes, appreciate yes, but neglect the present no.

God Bless You Always,
David



David A. Brown
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)     Nov-1 1:44 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 17)  
 
  723.4 in reply to 723.3  
 
Hi David, 

I agree that we have put ministers and theologians on pedestals, and that we dare not do that.   However, upon reading your initial post, I had a problem.   In one part it said that the Inquistors [basically] felt sorry for some of Calvin's people he sent their way...so let them go.   That doesn't make any sense at all from what I've read about the Inquistion and the evil done for so many years.   IOW, I doubt it.  

That said, we should look to Christ and not man, and realize, like you said:  that God uses imperfect men to do His work.  Look at us!  :)  And we should respect the saints gone before us, all the while taking our history lessons with a grain of salt and most importantly...use discernment through the power of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you, David.

amy

 
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    Nov-1 1:59 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    (5 of 17)  
 
  723.5 in reply to 723.4  
 
Hi Amy,

 

Well said.

 

One of my thoughts that I had not yet posted is that our Churches are filled with incredible Pastors, Leaders, Sunday School Teachers, Volunteers you name it. Yet we seldom manage to give them the respect and honor that is due to them even as the Bible instructs us to honor our leaders, but it is convenient to honor someone who lived 400 years ago.

 

We are shutting down some of our current and best talent because we are not in the hear and now, where God is at but we are in the 400 years in the far past.

 

Some encouragement to our current leaders would make some modern day John Calvins and we do need present day leadership.

 

I think it discourages potential leaders and ministers to hang the weight of Calvin, Spurgan, and others around their necks as they already battle their way into the ministry.

 

Just my thought.

 

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    Nov-1 2:08 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    (6 of 17)  
 
  723.6 in reply to 723.4  
 
Adding to my post.

 

I dont think that the Church has even read the various works of these men because it would not be possible to read their material and then have the Church in the uninspired condition that it is in.

 

I find it hard to believe that there can be millions of copies of books by Calvin, Spurgen, Oswald Chambers, C.S. Lewis and the like let alone the Bible sold every year, year after year and the Church is in the condition it is in.

 

People are not familiar with their works even though they buy the books. They are like the fruitcakes of the bookstore everyone has one or gets one and no one uses it.

 

So its even worse that we are putting these guys out there as our only leaders and their material is unused.

 

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)     Nov-1 2:59 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (7 of 17)  
 
  723.7 in reply to 723.6  
 
I know about the 'pedestal' thing.  I once criticized a renowned 'Christian psychologist' [whose name rhymes with Bobson, :)], and was treated like I had blasphemed Christ Himself!   Incredible.  As God is no respector of persons, neither should we be.   We are all called in the same way--out of darkness and into the Light--and we are all saved by the same grace.  Though we have different duties in the Body, we are all OF the same Body!

And yes, if we were to honor our pastors and teachers as we are taught in the Word, we would likely see them becoming more inspired and led to delve deeper into the Word in order to be used more greatly by Christ.   [as well, we should not put them on pedestals...make them like 'gods' in our eyes, like some have become in this day and age.  :( ]

bye, David. God bless you.  I'"m going to go stain a couple of 100-year old doors with my husband.  :)   After 15 years of not having one, I may have a bedroom door next week!  It is truly a good time!  :)

 
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  From:  8320john1   Nov-2 6:17 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 17)  
 
  723.8 in reply to 723.1  
 
The document is fallacious. It is IMPOSSIBLE at this late date to accuse Calvin of 48 executions and prove it, save the one he was remiss regarding Sevetus. The book is a smear and in no way represents the precepts of "Biblical" alleged Calvinism. 
Calvin wrote the insitutes before he was 28 years old. His theological views were molded by Augustine as much as anyone outide the Scriptures. 

Was Calvin in error regarding the matter of Sevetus? Yes, decidedly so. And that is one tragic misdeed he will either answer for or repented for prior to his demise. We don't know. What we do know is that Paul was responsible for the death of more than one prior to his conversion and we do not reject his teachings. 

I am not a "Calvinist," any more than a Lutheran or a Methodist. But the teachings of Scripture, not the teachings of Calvin or Luther are the obligatory precepts of the Christian Faith. 

I am decidedly an advocate of the Doctrines of Grace as understood from Genesis to Revelation. This was long before Calvin and has survived after his demise. 

Calvin is not the issue. I doubt very seriously the authenticity of the work as presented. But let's say it IS true. How can I receive Paul knowing by his own confession he was responsible for the death of the saints, the number unknown...it may have well exceed the alleged 48. 

"But, John, this was BEFORE he was converted." 

Yes, very true. But he also said that all that received any other Gospel than the one he brought was to be accursed. A far greater fate than simple mortal death. 

"Are you defending Calvin?" 

No, he was wrong, very wrong and even if he was only responsible for the death of one man, it resonates as much as the alleged (unproven) death of 48. What do the souls of those whom Paul was responsible for cry out under the altar? 

The point is not to defend the (prior)deeds of Paul or Calvin or Luther...or you or me. The issue is, 

"WHAT DOES THE BIBLE TEACH?" 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    Nov-2 6:31 am  
To:  8320john1   (9 of 17)  
 
  723.9 in reply to 723.8  
 
Very well said,

 

Lets follow the Bible, admire our teachers who have gone before us and lets strive to improve ourselves and those around us as today is the day that the Lord has given to us, so let us walk in it with one another and with Him.

 

God Bless You,
David



David A. Brown
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  From:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)    Nov-2 8:00 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    (10 of 17)  
 
  723.10 in reply to 723.7  
 
Hi Amy. hope you have your new beautiful bedroom door by 
now (!) 
I agree completely that we must balance our attitudes toward 
all people: especially those in leadership. - they should be 
given due honor and regard to their office and maturity in 
Christ. - but this should be balanced by an understanding 
that NO ONE, (save Christ Himself) should ever be put on 
a pedestal. 

and this thought also: the grace we extend to others, - ESPECIALLY 
our teachers and pastors, - is often the same grace GOD extends 
toward us in our walk. - all this reflects our true inward 
spiritual condition. 

God bless. 
and praying for your and yours. 

Len 


* People are being *fixed* in their true INWARD spiritual condition by choices and responses to Jesus Christ and His redemptive work and words. - IT IS AN INWARD PREPARATION for The Final Seperation. *

~ Why? Because of the nearness of His appearing. {and for some this shall be unto honor and glory forever; for others: it shall be eternal shame, condemnation, and dishonor} 

~ CHOICES.

Revelation 22: 10b ... for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing wrong continue to do wrong; the one who is vile, continue to be vile; the one who is good, continue to do good; and the one who is holy, continue in holiness. 12 See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay all according to their deeds. 

-----------------------------


* GOD IS SEARCHING EVERY HEART AND THEIR (actual) RELATIONSHIP TO HIS SON AND ETERNAL WORD! *

* He is looking for REALITY: not pretense! * 


Daniel 12:10: Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; 

--> but the wise shall understand. <-- 


WHAT IS HAPPENING? ---> * Matthew 24:10-14 * * Luke 21:22, 31-36 * ** 2 Thess.2:3-12 ** ~ II Timothy 3:1-9, plus verses 12-15. * Revelation 22:10-15 * 
* HEBREWS 12:25-29 * 

- and THAT is what's happening. *FOR REAL* 

THE FINAL SIFTING IS IN FULL-THROTTLE!



* There is a time for mercy...and a time for Judgement. * - (which one you get depends upon your honesty and humility before GOD)



* There IS no other way. * mercy/grace/truth/and holiness: THE SAVED SOUL is a TRANSFORMED soul in a very real progression of sanctification. 






==================================

and YOU will be EITHER the cross on His right...or the cross on His left. - they symbolize the whole of humanity in relation to Him: The Savior and Judge of every soul. THIS I declare to you in the authority of His Name and Word: you are EITHER {and WILL be either} one or the other. ~ Selah. {pause and ponder that very carefully} for it is an ETERNAL TRUTH. 
 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)     Nov-4 11:35 am  
To:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)   (11 of 17)  
 
  723.11 in reply to 723.10  
 
Hi Len!

That door has been stained, and is now in the process of receiving multiple coats of polyurethane!  YAY!  It is beautiful!  :)   

You're right about the grace thing:  the same grace we afford others is the grace we will receive from God.  [though we can't really comprehend that, I don't think, can we?  because ultimately, God's grace is limitless...but we do receive what we give, no doubt.]

God bless you, Len.   have a wonderful day! :)

amy

 
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  From:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)    Nov-4 11:42 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    (12 of 17)  
 
  723.12 in reply to 723.11  
 
Yes. but there is a very great error in much of the 
Church today: EXTENDING GRACE to others does NOT include 
watering down the message: which includes many warnings 
and the very real threat of wrath against the unrepentant 
and the hypocrites. - that ALSO is extending both grace 
AND truth. you see? 
people today (generally) are so "people oriented" and 
"user-friendly" that they forget the message of the horror 
of offending GOD and the promise regarding unrepentant sin 
and hypocrites, - both inside and outside the Church. 

Grace and the Message of the Gospel and BIBLICAL truth 
is not wishy-washy. - it can be as fiery as a prophet. 

Shalom 
and God bless. 


AND THE LORD SAID, Revelation 22: 10b ... for the time is near. 11 Let the one who is doing wrong continue to do wrong; the one who is vile, continue to be vile; the one who is good, continue to do good; and the one who is holy, continue in holiness. 12 See, I am coming soon, and my reward is with me, to repay all according to their deeds. 

-----------------------------


* He is looking for REALITY: not pretense! * 


Daniel 12:10: Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:

and none of the wicked shall understand; 

--> but the wise shall understand. <-- 


WHAT IS HAPPENING? ---> * Matthew 24:10-14 * * Luke 21:22, 31-36 * ** 2 Thess.2:3-12 ** ~ II Timothy 3:1-9, * 
* HEBREWS 12:25-29 * 

- and THAT is what's happening. *FOR REAL* 

THE FINAL SIFTING IS IN FULL-THROTTLE!



---> Isaiah 54:15-17 * Psalm 35:1-8,22,23 * <---

*LenBenHear/FranknSense/SEE: Romans 8:14 + John 3:8 and

~~~ I Cor.1:15-16; 4:3-5 ~~~

---> Isaiah 41:10-13 *Psalm 94:1-16, 21-23.* <---


VINCIT OMNIA VERITAS: * There is a time for mercy...and a time for Judgement. * - (which one you get depends upon your honesty and humility before GOD)


sanctification. 

Amen and Amen.



** Malachi 3:1-4, + 16-18 **

-------------------------------

** I Corinthians 2:16; 4:3-5 **

* Isaiah 54:14-17 * *Psalm 70; 94. LCH * 





It all has to do with *fruit* and destiny.---> YOUR choices. Choose Him: choose Life. HE IS GOD's Way to mercy, grace, forgiveness... and TRANSFORMATION! But those who reject Him shall be cast into eternal darkness. - ESPECIALLY those who hypocritically CLAIM to follow Him.
Many, many, M A N Y are those who have betrayed Him and "have a name only..." 






==================================

and YOU will be EITHER the cross on His right...or the cross on His left. - they symbolize the whole of humanity in relation to Him: The Savior and Judge of every soul. THIS I declare to you in the authority of His Name and Word: you are EITHER {and WILL be either} one or the other. ~ Selah. {pause and ponder that very carefully} for it is an ETERNAL TRUTH. 
 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)     Nov-4 11:57 pm  
To:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)   (13 of 17)  
 
  723.13 in reply to 723.12  
 
Hi Len

Yes!  I do see!   I've been going over these very things with my family lately.  I've found some terrific articles on the site link you gave, the "Jesus Is Lord" one.  I copied them off and read them to everyone.  

It is imperative that we never water down God's Word--ever.   

God bless you, Len.

how is your wife doing these days?  

amy

 
 
 

 
  
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  From:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)    Nov-5 10:38 pm  
To:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)    (14 of 17)  
 
  723.14 in reply to 723.13  
 
Thanks Amy. 
Lynne needs prayer right now. - she is still recovering from 
the fall [some six months ago now] 
and the broken leg; but this has been complicated lately 
by a nasty virus, cough, and mucous infection. Please keep her 
in prayer for her health-needs. she's getting weary and I 
sometimes feel much concern for her. 

I would ask prayer for my wife, also, from David and John 
and Falcon over this. - it is a growing need and concern for 
all of us here on this mission field. 

thank you all. 

---------------------------------- 

Here are two very wonderful websites, Amy, on the issue 
of "diluting the Gospel" and/or diluting or polluting the 
TRUTHS of the Word of GOD: 

www.livingwaters.com 

and especially: 

www.livingwaters.com/pastor.shtml 

www.vor.org/truth/sew/easychr/easychr00.html 

(this is a brief article/booklet on the topic) 

--------------------------------- 

all kind regards to you and yours. 

Len 




Daniel 12:10: Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly:

and none of the wicked shall understand; 

--> but the wise shall understand. <-- 


WHAT IS HAPPENING? ---> * Matthew 24:10-14 * * Luke 21:22, 31-36 * ** 2 Thess.2:3-12 ** ~ II Timothy 3:1-9, * 
* HEBREWS 12:25-29 * 

- and THAT is what's happening. *FOR REAL* 

THE FINAL SIFTING IS IN FULL-THROTTLE!



---> Isaiah 54:15-17 * Psalm 35:1-8,22,23 * <---

*LenBenHear/FranknSense/SEE: Romans 8:14 + John 3:8 and

~~~ I Cor.1:15-16; 4:3-5 ~~~

---> Isaiah 41:10-13 *Psalm 94:1-16, 21-23.* <---


VINCIT OMNIA VERITAS: * There is a time for mercy...and a time for Judgement. * - (which one you get depends upon your honesty and humility before GOD)


sanctification. 





==================================

and YOU will be EITHER the cross on His right...or the cross on His left. - they symbolize the whole of humanity in relation to Him: The Savior and Judge of every soul. THIS I declare to you in the authority of His Name and Word: you are EITHER {and WILL be either} one or the other. ~ Selah. {pause and ponder that very carefully} for it is an ETERNAL TRUTH. 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    Nov-6 6:45 am  
To:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)   (15 of 17)  
 
  723.15 in reply to 723.14  
 
Hi Len,

 

Thanks for the info, your wife is now on my prayer list.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

God Bless You Always,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Christ, our Hope (amym38)     Nov-6 10:23 am  
To:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)   (16 of 17)  
 
  723.16 in reply to 723.14  
 
Oh, Len, I'm sorry your wife is feeling low physically, plus getting weary.  :(    I hope she will start feeling better soon, and that she can rest in God's hands which are capable and comforting.  God bless you both.

Thanks for the links, Len.   

amy

 
 
 

 
  
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   From:  LenBenHEAR/LIFE_or_death:SEE: John 3:36 (franknsense)    Nov-6 11:52 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (17 of 17)  
 
  723.17 in reply to 723.15  
 
A big thank you to you both! 
Lynne is the love of my life, next to Jesus. so you understand 
my concern. 

God bless! 

Len 



sanctification. 


>>>>>>>> 






It all has to do with *fruit* and destiny.---> YOUR choices. Choose Him: choose Life. HE IS GOD's Way to mercy, grace, forgiveness... and TRANSFORMATION! But those who reject Him shall be cast into eternal darkness. - ESPECIALLY those who hypocritically CLAIM to follow Him.
Many, many, M A N Y are those who have betrayed Him and "have a name only..." 






==================================

and YOU will be EITHER the cross on His right...or the cross on His left. - they symbolize the whole of humanity in relation to Him: The Savior and Judge of every soul. THIS I declare to you in the authority of His Name and Word: you are EITHER {and WILL be either} one or the other. ~ Selah. {pause and ponder that very carefully} for it is an ETERNAL TRUTH. 
 
  
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